Posts by King Solomon

47

The End of False Religion Is Near! HAHAHA

by tootired2care in

memories!

i remember a few years back being involved in the campaign work, and having the distinctly awkward experience of having to hand the householders this piece of sh1t tract "the end of false religion is near!"..

i recall the discomfort i had trying to get into a conversation about this nonsense.

King Solomon

It's like a Doomsday version of Reader's Digest, only much more boring....

43

WT Society Feels they are Above the Laws of the Land - Even in their own....

by flipper in

jw
friends

...... words.

knowing that the candace conti child abuse case was probably coming down the turnpike as was the 5 out of court child abuse settlements the wt society settled in san diego, california - this past april as most of you know the wt society sent a secret letter instructing all elders to essentially keep their " pie-holes " shut ( mouths for those not hip to modern lingo ) and essentially instructed them to not divulge anything to any authorities investigating crimes or other information concerning wt organization operations.. someone posted a thread on this in april, however - with all the news coming out about wt child abuse coverups, the anonymous organization investigating the wt society , i felt it important to reveal some snippets of what the wt society instructed their elders regarding legal issues.

in one section it states, " when someone seeks confidential information : you should never reveal confidential information to anyone unless theocratic procedure requires it or the branch office has instructed you to do so.

King Solomon

Thats the problem with taking snippets out of context: without seeing the entire flow of what surrounds, it's impossible to know what was said the sentence before.... It's also impossible to tell if the prior page had explained that reporting was mandatory (depends on State law), or if authorities had already been notified and child was removed by Child Protective Services; AFTER that initial investigation the authorities are now conducting a more thorough formal investigation, digging deeper for possible criminal prosecution by looking for incriminating evidence to support a case (possibly a need to subpoena congregation records).

BTW, obtaining a subpoena is NOT the first thing done in a criminal investigation. In fact, LEOs need to have probable cause to support a request, and need to provide the judge with step-wise evidence indicating probable cause to justify getting one. Subpoenas are NOT fishing licenses for LEOs, hoping to find evidence: they generally have to be very specific and detailed re: what they're looking for. If not, the request is denied, with orders to narrow the the scope of the request, or to obtain more evidence to support it.

Smart Baby alluded to the fact that child abuse is a criminal matter, unlike adultery and fornication, which generally aren't even civil matters (depending on the State).

36

What's so mysterious about "generation" (genea) in Matthew?

by kepler in

thanks to a number of notices about a website titled www.jwfacts.com, i took a quick tour and found some very informative pages and charts about the organization's positions and history.

thanks also to a number of posters for their reminders.

i can't summarize the whole site in a topic, but it did include a history of the interpretation of the phrase "this generation", appearing in matthew 24:34.. "truly i say to you that this generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur.".

King Solomon

Thanks K.Sol, and if you want a laugh and to see exegetical gymnastics performed to Olmpic standards just look at the WT's attempt to explain away that scripture.

I bet!

You can almost sense Jesus' frustration, even pulling out the, "truly, I say to you" bit (which is Jesus' code for, "Are you all REALLY that clueless?")

Here's the King Solomon translation:

"For cryin' out loud, you dim-wits! Let me make this PERFECTLY CLEAR without using the "generation" word, since it's GOING TO BE A PROBLEM, apparently. YOU (points to John), and YOU (Peter), and YOU (Judas Iscariot): SOME of you will NOT die (<cough> hint: NOT Judas! <cough>) until you see ME coming into MY Kingdom. Oh, it will take about 2,000 yrs for me to get to the throne, as I tend to dawdle on the way..."

JW's gymnastics reminds me of this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mLOUWl-L-s

43

WT Society Feels they are Above the Laws of the Land - Even in their own....

by flipper in

jw
friends

...... words.

knowing that the candace conti child abuse case was probably coming down the turnpike as was the 5 out of court child abuse settlements the wt society settled in san diego, california - this past april as most of you know the wt society sent a secret letter instructing all elders to essentially keep their " pie-holes " shut ( mouths for those not hip to modern lingo ) and essentially instructed them to not divulge anything to any authorities investigating crimes or other information concerning wt organization operations.. someone posted a thread on this in april, however - with all the news coming out about wt child abuse coverups, the anonymous organization investigating the wt society , i felt it important to reveal some snippets of what the wt society instructed their elders regarding legal issues.

in one section it states, " when someone seeks confidential information : you should never reveal confidential information to anyone unless theocratic procedure requires it or the branch office has instructed you to do so.

King Solomon

Flipper said:

So basically - the WT society is instructing the elders that THEY , WT leaders are above the law , and desire that elders be accomplices with them in witholding even criminal investigation type information out of police authorities access ! Amazing.

Yeah, I don't see that as incriminating evidence that they "think they're above the law": that's reading something into it that maybe I'm missing, but just don't see it.

They're advising elders to consult with the WT lawyers before providing information requested in a subpoena, just to make sure LEOs have followed due process in obtaining a subpoena, and it's on the up-and-up. That's just good common sense for ANYONE who is served with a subpoena: verify with a lawyer that it's valid BEFORE voluntarily providing info. (The issue of whether they should seek their OWN legal advice via their own lawyer vs seeking advice of WT lawyers, who are seeking to maximize the protection of THEIR clients assets, is another issue, indeed!)

However, it's basically the same as telling suspects that they have the right to plead the 5th and talk to a lawyer before making any statements to the police, to avoid self-incrimination: pleading the 5th in no way implies that the suspect IS guilty, just that they need to verify their legal rights under the law before making any move.

11

Jonathan Edwards loses his faith

by slimboyfat in

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-435374/olympic-champ-jonathan-edwards-insists-marriage-intact-despite-christianity-crisis.html.

the author of the article makes the comment:.

"he has a deep, theological comprehension of the bible, making his spiritual meltdown even more unlikely.".

King Solomon

At least in Tim Tebow's case, I can think of some very compelling financial reasons NOT to lose his faith post-NFL: there are many business opportunities and doors opened to someone who proudly professes their Xian faith as openly and proudly as he did.

31

Good-bye, friends

by BizzyBee in

jw
friends

we bees leave for our trip this afternoon - a river cruise from budapest to the black sea.

everyone on the ship is a tandem cycling couple.

we will visit hungary, serbia, moldav, romania, austria, germany and croatia.. it will be a nice break from politics and the world news since we don't watch much tv on these trips.. hold down the fort - see you in a couple of weeks!.

King Solomon

Sounds like a suweet vacay! I'm jealous, but have fun anyway! :)

13

Robots

by Aeiouy in

i was reading the incredibly fascinating posts on the "something i heard from our lord" topic, and noticed something that piqued my curiousity.

the jws always say that eve wasn't really guilty of wrongdoing, but rather adam.

after eating from the tree, adam became like god, knowing good and evil.

King Solomon

Adam thought that if God didnt want him to eat the fruit, God wouldnt have made the tree to begin with (which seems quite logical). And besides he figured if he pissed God off, he would just get a Lawyer and adjudicate the whole thing in court, which is why it took like 900 years,,,,, Anymore questions?

Adam fought the law, and the law won. I think he made the mistake of using WTBTS legal counsel, tho: not really standing up for HIM, but the future interests of the WTBTS. :)

Not that it would matter: YHWH was Judge, Jury, witness (that's one benefit of being omnipresent), AND executioner. Nope, no conflict of interest there, no sirree...

13

Robots

by Aeiouy in

i was reading the incredibly fascinating posts on the "something i heard from our lord" topic, and noticed something that piqued my curiousity.

the jws always say that eve wasn't really guilty of wrongdoing, but rather adam.

after eating from the tree, adam became like god, knowing good and evil.

King Solomon

OGD says,

According to this theology, Adam and Eve-or all of humanity-can know what is truly good and what isn't if they accept guidance from the Creator. The narrative isn't saying that Adam didn't know the difference between the two, because the story relies on both humans knowing God's ordinance regarding the tree in question and its fruit. Eve even quotes the law of God for the serpent when asked, demonstrating that she knows the difference between what should be done and what shouldn't (what is good and what is evil).

Yeah, I've seen that interpretations, and it raises more questions than it answers.

Basically, you're saying that the fruit didn't bestow morality, as much as it made them "head-strong", giving them the classic flawed personality trait that leads to mortal downfall: hubris, AKA excessive pride.

However, that flies smack into the face of what the Bible records about what Eve thought as the temptation to eat: she saw it looked good for food, had a pleasant appearance, but "it was desirable to gain wisdom". There it is, in black-and-white.

(of course, morality is synonymous for wisdom)

Another problem is, hubris is considered as an excess of confidence in one's decision-making powers, basically feeling invincible, untouchable. However, God himself acknowledged "their eyes had become opened" by eating, and that phrase implies something fundamental about their World-view HAD changed, such that their perspective OPENED UP, and they were seeing possibilities that previously had been unknown to them. Imbuing them with hubris wouldn't provide them with such a life-changing experience.

In fact, an argument can be made that hubris may have lead up to them eating the forbidden fruit, not vice-versa. How so?

We've all seen children who way-overestimated their abilities to do something (skate-boarding, dirt-bikes, you name it: think of the kid wearing a "No Fear!" t-shirt), and earned a broken bone, as a result. Or kids who felt they were ready to make life-altering decisions (eg getting married at 14). Adults can recognize they're not ready, but do they? Children haven't yet learned their limits, as that's a part of normal maturation process that hopefully everyone completes before getting a drivers license!

Adam and Eve HAD to be tempted to eat the fruit, hence it had to possess something they didn't have, but saw as desirable. The Bible acknowledges they obtained it, by stealing it: that was WISDOM (per the Bible). So, what's the antonym of WISDOM, in Biblical terms? Foolish. They were created as fools, who wanted to be wise. God didn't want them to be wise, to exercise their own decisions. He wanted to dole out laws to them, not have them make their own rules.

So obviously the idea that the story is saying that Adam didn't know good from bad is an incorrect conclusion since it doesn't explain why the serpent would question the humans about what was right and wrong. (Why would the Devil ask Adam and Eve a question about what was right regarding the trees and their fruit if they didn't know?)

Hmmm, why did YHWH ask "Adam, where art thou?" when they hid from him? Surely God wasn't just playing dumb, suppressing his omnipotence and omniscience?

Why did God ask them if they ate of the fruit, who told them they were naked, etc? (Hint: God isn't much on using process of elimination, i.e. how many other talking animals did God make? The serpent was "craftier" than the other beasts of the field: did He forget about the most likely suspect?)

BTW, just because Eve parroted God's prohibition to the serpent doesn't mean She or Adam understood the serious consequences in violating God's rule (which by definition IS sinning, acting contrary to God's Divine Will is what broadly defines a sin). A child can parrot back whatever YOU tell them, but they don't understand the importance of the consequences until they learn about it the hard way, via the school of hard knocks. Some can learn by the examples of others who see them suffer as a result of poor choices, but most deny it, telling themselves "it'll never happen to me".

So, God was dealing with the equivalent of children, and they paid with their lives: that's the basis of "Original Sin". Sound fair to you? All of us being sentenced to death, suffering, torment, etc, because God left the poisonous fruit out where they could eat it? I dunno: do you leave candy out that's tainted with poison for your kids to eat, just so you could punish them?

If SO, you might have God-like status in your future!!!

@@@@

FWIW, it's basically a retelling of the story of Promethus, wherein the protagonist stole fire (which represents actual knowledge, gnos, in Greek symbology; the fire was replaced by the symbol of fruit, and gave them moral knowledge). Zeus was upset, and punished Prometheus with a perennial painful task (having his liver eaten out daily, only to regrow at night); Adam had to work the cursed soil for the rest of his days. The oral legend was modified over thousands of years, but is just a retelling of the same 'origins' myth.

15

Does the Bible talk about Conscience Matter?

by Iamallcool in

just wondering.

thanks!.

King Solomon

Yup, 'conscience matters' are the ONLY situations where a JW is allowed to use their Bible-trained™ conscience after thoughtful prayer (i.e. not just the usual thoughtless rambling one otherwise does in a prayer, thanking God for unicorns, flowers, lollipops, Justin Bieber, etc). The rest of the decisions they face are under God's jurisdiction, and not appropriate to use one's own powers of discretion (AKA 'free will'), but are required to follow God's wishes and laws, AKA Divine Will, as expressed via the Bible (or if a JW, in the publications).

The irony is one of my JW relatives was bagging on the Mormons, saying how Jesus warned Xians about any attempt to append to the Bible, as they do with their Book of Mormon (I can't remember what NT scripture he used to make this claim. Anyone know?). Of course, the thought running thru my mind was that warning would seem to apply to JWs as well, where the GB basically appends their interpretations onto the "supposedly closed for future modifications" Bible, placing them on par with (or even above) the Bible.

11

Jonathan Edwards loses his faith

by slimboyfat in

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-435374/olympic-champ-jonathan-edwards-insists-marriage-intact-despite-christianity-crisis.html.

the author of the article makes the comment:.

"he has a deep, theological comprehension of the bible, making his spiritual meltdown even more unlikely.".

King Solomon

Not knowing anything about the guy or his show, if he's anything like the high-visibility Xians in the States, allow me to go on the record that it's being driven not so much as a crisis per se, but being forced out to avoid a scandal, with a threat of past indiscretions coming to light, i.e. he was caught in an affair (straight or gay). They're playing it up now, to boost the ratings.

$10 says we'll see the real reason, 1 yr from now.